Dr. Sandra Baccara, a Professor at the School of Federal Magistracy in Brazil, is an expert in parental alienation. She specializes in diagnosing children’s false memory that is induced by alienators to support their false allegations in parental alienation cases. This is an interview with Dr. Sandra Baccara.
This interview was translated from Portuguese by, and we are grateful for, Leninha Da Paz and Caio Penatti. We also would like to thank Rhonda Taormina Cogliamo, Luciana Rabela, Daisy Senanes and Michelle Stegall Jordan for helping us find the translators.
Q. Very often in parental alienation cases, children reject parents using memories that are untrue. It could be claims that the parents weren’t there for them, when they in fact were, or that the parents were abusive, when they weren’t. What are these false memories?
A. The false memories are tools implemented in the children’s brains for the alienators to use to manipulate the children to invalidate the other parents and other people when they are in contact with the children. False memories are very common in parental alienation cases.
Q. How do alienators create false memories in the children?
A. Those are exaggeration or distortion of facts that did happen but they are distorted by these alienators. For example, when a very young child comes from one parent’s home, the other parent asks did your mom (or dad) touch your genital area. The child said “yes” but it may be because of personal hygiene, like showering or bathing the child, with no ill intention. The alienator then distorted that fact, and intentionally led the child to misinterpret what’s going on.
Q. Does the child know that this is wrong?
A. No, they are children and they are very young and get led into this train of thought. They trust the alienators. Also, they are being told these lies so many times growing up that they got used to it and believe and adopt these as real.
Q. So through repetition?
A. Yes, many repetitions.
Q. Is there anyway for targeted parents help the child to avoid the lies?
A. It is very difficult for alienated parents to help, the best solution is for children to get professional therapeutic help. If you do try to address yourself, avoid badmouthing the other parent and unintentionally becoming an alienator as well.
Q. How do we do that so we don’t make the child feel like we are talking bad about the other parent?
A. It’s about the alienated parent’s behaviors around the child and parent well so you can show who you really are… stay patient, over time your child will start to see the truth.
Q. For the targeted parents, obviously they know these are lies and are untrue but what about the rest of the world, how can others identify false vs. lies from the children’s words?
A. The child’s behavior will show the world what is true and what is false. When a child hasn’t been abuse, there is no shame in reporting the abuse, the child simply parroting a script. When a child has been abuse, feeling of shame and guilt make the victims difficult to speak up about those facts. Whenever asked by different people, the lying child tends to add and make up more “facts” so the story becomes more elaborated over time. The child that was really abused will repeat the same story.
Q. How can therapy help reverse false memories in the children?
A. With very young children, we use interactive playing activities, with toys, games to teach the child the difference between truth and false. They are teaching the child the skill to know the difference between the fake and the real memories. You can bring back the real memory.
Q. Without the therapy, what can targeted parents do?
A. It’s hard. In Brazil, whenever it is found that there is a false accusation from the alienators the court takes away the child from the alienators. And then you can request the court system for the child to see therapy.
Q. But what about the targeted parents, what can we do to help reverse the false memory?
A. It’s hard for the parents to reverse it. The only thing that the alienated parents can really do is to stay in contact and with that relationship, the child can see that the targeted parents are innocent.
Q. What about before the false memory happens, what could the targeted parents have done to prevent false memory?
A. To be in touch and to be close so that the child can understand. The closer the relationship with the targeted parents, the better prevention for the false memories. Contact is the answer. The children can see the truth about the alienated parents. If the child is too young, it’s harder. If the child is older, say from 4yo, then the child can start to be able to tell the truth.
Q. Sometimes the child will go to court to testify using the false allegation and lose custody and the children lose contacts with parents for many years, now the child is an adult and reconnect, should the targeted parents address the false allegations with the child?
A. Yes they should address that subject so that it doesn’t stay a mystery, because if not, the child’s mind will be foggy about the subject so it should be address.
Q. This question came from our audience: “In 2010, the law in Brazil made parental alienation a criminal act, how has changed?”
A. No, in Brazil, that’s a mistake. Brazil law does not criminalizae parental alienation. It is not a crime. It was a bill that was put to the Senate but they did not pass it.
Q. So how do parents in Brazil enforce their rights when it comes to parental alienation?
A. First, they give a warning then give alienated more custody time, then give fines to the alienator, then order for the child and alienated parent to go to therapy, then change custody arrangement to give it to the alienated parents, teenagers cannot leave the country without court permission, the highest charge is to remove custody completely.
Q. Can she talk about how to make reunification therapy work? What does it take to make it work?
A. Ideally the reunification is to be done in a professional environment. If not, spend more time with the child will help with reunification.
Q. How do they do that in therapy?
A. With a professional, the child and parent can both speak about the experience.
Q. Each time the child reconnect then goes back to the alienator and get affected again, how can alienated parents help the situation?
A. The idea solution is to reverse the residency/custody of the child. The child cannot be around the alienator otherwise it’s difficult. If not possible, the alienated parent should try to be in touch more with the child and push it through. There’s no recipe.
Q. Is it possible to achieve success if the child is still in contact with the alienator
A. Yes, it’s possible.
Q. So other than therapy, what else can the parents do?
A. To be close, to relate to the child on the day to day
Q. How can the parents build a close relationship if the child believes that that parent is bad because the child refuses to have a close relationship with that parent?
A. The severe the alienation is, the harder to reverse the situation. Timing is everything, the idea is to prevent the problem. The only prevention there is is for the alienated parents to not ignore it, and don’t giving up and walk away, and keep stay in touch, keep being available, keep seeing the child even with supervised visits.
Q. If the parental alienation is severe, is it time to give up?
A. Yes, depending on the level of alienation, sometimes it is not possible to let go. If it causes too severe pain for the alienated parent, if the pain ins unbearable and you cannot handle then you should let it go. Wait until the child grow and understand what happened was wrong.
Q. If you have not talked to or seen the child for many years, how do you get the child to talk to you?
A. Bring in a someone else that the child trust,
Thank you so much for doing this interview.